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Catholics Have the Power to Change Their Church

Posted by libhom Thursday, June 04, 2009

Pro-Choice Catholics don't have to put up with the anti abortion jihads of a clergy which is supposed to represent them. All they have to do to stop this nonsense is to put pieces of paper instead of money in the collection plates. The pieces of paper would say.

Anti Choice


No Money

Do you really think Ratzinger would give up his fancy frocks and dress in normal priestly drab? Do you really think this pontiff and other church higher ups would give up their lives of luxury to oppose abortion?

Catholics are not helpless and powerless.



  1. David Duff Says:
  2. I don't know how many Roman Catholic priests of high and low rank have died for their beliefs but I suspect it is a fairly enormous number.

    I know next to nothing of the current Pope but common courtesy would lead me to give him the benefit of the doubt concerning your blanket accusation of moral cowardice and venality

  3. two crows Says:
  4. I think this is a great idea.

    while David Duff is probably right that there have been priests who have martyred themselves for their beliefs, there have been plenty more who have done no such thing.

    and, even if the money part of the equation didn't sway them, the large numbers of pro-choice people just might -- even if the Catholic Church ISN'T a democracy, which it most decidedly isn't.

  5. David Duff Says:
  6. "even if the Catholic Church ISN'T a democracy, which it most decidedly isn't."

    Well, I would suggest that for the last 2 to 3 hundred years it has been a voluntary organisation whose members have not been forced into it by water-boarding, nor kept in it shackles! Of course, it has its own rules, just like, dare I say, the Democrat party, but then it wouldn't be an organisation without rules, would it?

    As a great American once said, "I wouldn't want to be a member of any club that had me as a member" and for that reason, amongst others, I am not a Catholic. Whilst, I can understand that its faults vex you, your wilful refusal to see its virtues is to choose to be obtuse.

  7. libhom Says:
  8. David: You are starting to go too far when you talk of the "virtues" of the Catholic Church, especially its leadership. Let's go over some of the "virtues" of the Catholic hierarchy.

    - Protecting priests who beat and rape children.

    - Aligning with Hitler and Mussolini before and during WWII.

    - Inciting acts of terrorism against abortion providers.

    - A genocidal, racist campaign against condom use in Africa which followed a previous genocidal, heterosexist campaign against condom use and HIV education in the US.

    - Sex discrimination in the hiring of priests.

    - Fraudulent and bigoted condemnations of homosexuality.

    - Promoting Global Warming, poverty, and disease by opposing effective birth control.

    If your comments are going to be published on this blog again, you need to apologize for defending the Catholic Church as an institution. All defenses of the Catholic Church hierarchy are inherent defenses of child abuse, including child rape.

    I could go on, but you get the point.

  9. two crows Says:
  10. libhom--
    I was gonna slip back here after DD's response to me just to point out that the CC doesn't even CLAIM to be democracy -- so I didn't see why he was getting his knickers in a bunch.

    but, you said it so much better than I could.

  11. two crows Says:
  12. oh, and adding just one more to your list, libhom--

    -canonizing a pope who aligned himself with Hitler and Mussolini.
    fwiw, I flirted with conversion while in my 20's. but, then I started studying the history of the Church and decided-- not so much.

  13. lib

    can i add one to your list on the CC (catholic church)

    treating women like dirt.

    i would love your take on the orthodox jewish hierarchy (which in my mind is just as bad... having had to live through a lot of it)

  14. libhom Says:
  15. Distributorcap: I wouldn't claim that I could have come up with all the evil things the Catholic Church does. Please do add to the list. As for the Orthodox Church, I read and hear very little about them, though I have noticed that they often let themselves be used as window dressing in the crusades of Christian Right extremists who see all Jews as "Christ killers."

    two crows: At least you flirted with conversion as an adult, which is not as dangerous as flirting with conversion as a child was. I'm happy for you that you didn't decide to go along with it.

    I forgot about the Canonization of Hitler's Pope. It's difficult to keep track of all the crazy and evil things Ratzinger does.

  16. Anonymous Says:
  17. I know next to nothing of the current Pope but common courtesy would lead me to give him the benefit of the doubt concerning your blanket accusation of moral cowardice and venality
    Moral cowardice: other young men risked their life by not joining the Hitler Youth. Ratzi either agreed with their ideals (which, quite frankly, his support of holocaust deniers within the Church gives some indication of) or he was a coward. There is no other possibility, and there most certainly were young men who did have the courage to stand against the Nazis. It is an insult to the momory of true heroes to pretend Ratzi was anything other than a moral coward at best.



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